[Sbse] Ex: Re: Alternative to Safaira

Susan Roaf s.roaf at btinternet.com
Thu Oct 8 02:21:11 PDT 2020


Derek,

There are lots of different ways of combining temperatures and lots of 
indices - but they mask how systems actually work.  For instance most 
people - researchers included are re-programmed to understand the world 
as they have experienced in - so in heated and cooled buildings the wall 
and air temperatures are similar.  If you are to understand complex 
natural ventilation systems like windcatchers and how they work - then 
the difference between a high/low air temperature and its speed and the 
high/low radiant temperatures off walls are critical to their functions 
and understanding them.

So no - dont conflate all the factors, it makes us stupid designers 
pushed to seeing mechanical systems as sensible and loosing the ability 
to understand passive systems in their complexity.     If you need a 
measure - use air temperature and at the edges - high or low - then look 
to parallel affects like air speed etc.

My thoughts

Sue





------ Original Message ------
From: "Derek Clements-Croome" <d.j.clements-croome at reading.ac.uk>
To: "Susan Roaf" <s.roaf at btinternet.com>
Cc: "Haglund, Bruce (bhaglund at uidaho.edu)" <bhaglund at uidaho.edu>; "sbse" 
<sbse at uidaho.edu>; "Smita Chandra Thomas" <bluroc at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 5 Oct, 20 At 13:58
Subject: Re: [Sbse] Ex: Re:  Alternative to Safaira
  Hello Sue
Do look up Missenards résultant temperature which combines air and 
radiant temperatures Different systems display a balance of convection 
and radiants outputs. You select then the system that best meets your 
needs in the particular context.

Derek


Sent from my iPhone

  On 5 Oct 2020, at 12:22, Susan Roaf <s.roaf at btinternet.com> wrote:




Dear All,


Do you have a view on the relative importance of Radiant and Air 
Temperatures ? Which do you concentrate on - Which is more important do 
you think and do you have rules of thumb perhaps about the relative 
radiant or air temperature performances of spaces  ? What temperatures, 
Radiant or Air should be avoid or encourage?

Sue



  ------ Original Message ------
  From: "Pablo La Roche" <pmlaroche at cpp.edu>
  To: "Smita Chandra Thomas" <bluroc at gmail.com>; "Haglund, Bruce 
(bhaglund at uidaho.edu)" <bhaglund at uidaho.edu>
  Cc: "sbse" <sbse at uidaho.edu>
  Sent: Monday, 5 Oct, 20 At 03:50
  Subject: Re: [Sbse] Ex: Re: Alternative to Safaira


  Hi Stefano




  I use HEED for a Master level class for non-architects at the Lyle 
Center and have used it for 2nd-year undergrad ARC students. For both, 
it has worked out well. It is very easy to use and I appreciate how you 
can visualize the effects of shade, passive heating,  and natural 
ventilation. Happy to share the lecture that explains HEED and the 
exercise they do with HEED.




  Best,




  Pablo









Pablo La Roche Ph.D. LEED AP BD+C
  Professor
  Department of Architecture

Interim Director, Lyle  Center for Regenerative Studies
  Cal Poly Pomona


909 869 2700







From: SBSE <sbse-bounces at uidaho.edu> on behalf of Smita Chandra Thomas 
<bluroc at gmail.com>
  Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 5:27 PM
  To: Haglund, Bruce (bhaglund at uidaho.edu) <bhaglund at uidaho.edu>
  Cc: sbse <sbse at uidaho.edu>
  Subject: Ex: Re: [Sbse] Alternative to Safaira



Bruce, I'll share a link to this listserv when we release the Beta 
version of EDGE v3.
v2 is already available at  app.edgebuildings.com 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fapp.edgebuildings.com__*3B!!JYXjzlvb!xqQN-_d8lE-Rwp1KzUaZilCnVbbBVdHiMLphmW9u7LYod-9CALoQJubgH1GJMQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C0*7C637374545148698090&sdata=Oo4puqbyFpH8wVRzhVWwKcdlkvo1y0VhG4e4wx4DhtU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPSJdZssTQ$>



Sincerely,

Smita






On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 3:54 PM Haglund, Bruce (bhaglund at uidaho.edu 
<mailto:bhaglund at uidaho.edu> ) <bhaglund at uidaho.edu 
<mailto:bhaglund at uidaho.edu> >  wrote:



  Stefano,

  Nice news on the school sketch-up license.

  Smita,

  How can we access the version 3 beta?



  Thanks,

  Bruce


From: SBSE <sbse-bounces at uidaho.edu <mailto:sbse-bounces at uidaho.edu> > 
on behalf of Stefano Schiavon <schiavon at berkeley.edu 
<mailto:schiavon at berkeley.edu> >
  Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 4:04 PM
  To: sbse <sbse at uidaho.edu <mailto:sbse at uidaho.edu> >
  Subject: Re: [Sbse] Alternative to Safaira




Dear All,



thank you very much for the valuable feedback and suggestions. I was 
also unaware of EDGE and Design Explorer.

Since I wrote this morning, I learned that if your university has a 
SketchUp license in your department or another one, then you can still 
get Safaira for free.




Have a nice weekend,



Stefano








On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 12:07 PM Smita Chandra Thomas <bluroc at gmail.com 
<mailto:bluroc at gmail.com> > wrote:


Most welcome. Also, as a student of Murra Milne (in the 90s), I'm happy 
to hear you are using HEED, which is his baby.





On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 2:52 PM James Erickson <jperick1 at asu.edu 
<mailto:jperick1 at asu.edu> > wrote:















Stefano --




For a class with minimal 3D modeling skills, I have often used BeOpt 
(beopt.nrel.gov/home 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fbeopt.nrel.gov*2Fhome__*3B!!JYXjzlvb!xkBUWPD1S7Sq_2_mQfeAkgwQp7fw5aXzO1vQPhbBVRPd_NFQPMx4VMKEOER0Bg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C0*7C637374545148698090&sdata=fmNA7RrljYa6U1OdtPZ5krtssbl0PImLQXR7g4zRjl4*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPRih5uFug$> 
)  and/or HEED (https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.energy-design-tools.aud.ucla.edu/heed/__;!!JYXjzlvb!zNJBIrN7XI8CY6K8JuN3jrph-HMbENc7gXVgY7ID9k3uVFxIw-TbhfeHL3RQ5w$  
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fwww.energy-design-tools.aud.ucla.edu*2Fheed*2F__*3B!!JYXjzlvb!xkBUWPD1S7Sq_2_mQfeAkgwQp7fw5aXzO1vQPhbBVRPd_NFQPMx4VMIs_fby7Q*24&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C0*7C637374545148708080&sdata=P5KBzQY*2Fr3JqE5OuTxM6bvfYKCZZug3fSAAaiDTy*2BKI*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPQbtjtL7w$> 
)  for simple, preliminary energy analysis and introducing the concept 
to students and novice architects.



Unlike other options, these tools do not have any monetary obstacles to 
their use (both are free) and are from reputable institutions. Modeling 
in these programs is simplistic, best for providing analysis of 
preliminary  residential forms however, there are abundant options for 
testing different environmental, construction assemblies, orientation, 
and equipment scenarios. Enough to keep a class occupied and complete a 
range of introductory assignments. BeOpt can provide a  means to test 
all of the subjects you list for your class.



For an instructor and TAs, there is little time to set up files and 
demonstrate the tools to a class. Students can quickly start simulating 
results and testing hypotheses within minutes of installing. EnergyPlus 
is used by BeOpt (not sure about HEED) as the simulation engine making 
the program well suited for energy and resource usage analysis but 
limited on daylighting. Data visualization is limited to simplistic 
graphics however, you can export an IDF file to be  run in other 
software such as a grasshopper HB/LB script or even EnergyPlus(!) and 
display output data in your prefered data viewer.



BeOpt provides the means to run individual, parametric, and optimization 
scenarios with little set up time.
















Smita -- I was unaware of the EDGE software by the IFC. Thank you for 
bringing this tool to our attention.






Cheers -- James









































On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 11:15 AM Smita Chandra Thomas 
<thomas at energy-shrink.com <mailto:thomas at energy-shrink.com> > wrote:


The IFC (World Bank) software EDGE might work well for your purposes. It 
calculates Energy, Water and Materials efficiency. It is FREE, and will 
always be, available online, and cloud-based — no need to download.
  edgebuildings.com 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fedgebuildings.com__*3B!!JYXjzlvb!xkBUWPD1S7Sq_2_mQfeAkgwQp7fw5aXzO1vQPhbBVRPd_NFQPMx4VMJxlOG7TQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C0*7C637374545148708080&sdata=LYFCC3iIp*2FGgnDkki*2FAyLbJMYyvHYE2BZRMchaohelM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPQlwC1Pig$>
app.  edgebuildings.com 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fedgebuildings.com__*3B!!JYXjzlvb!xkBUWPD1S7Sq_2_mQfeAkgwQp7fw5aXzO1vQPhbBVRPd_NFQPMx4VMJxlOG7TQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C0*7C637374545148718068&sdata=XNEsQ21WmwBjMmy5KaBxSXL8CIhokg16lZpam9UnaE4*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPQYSxRZAw$>



I use it to illustrate passive design concepts and such in my seminars. 
It does live calculations using quasi steady-state calcs at the back-end 
based on ISO standards.

  I work with the team as a consultant. We are working on version 3 
which will include an ASHRAE 2016 baseline and US locations. We will 
release a Beta in one or two weeks, and the full version in December. In 
the meantime, I use Beijing to model DC, for example.



Hope that helps.


Sincerely,
Smita

—

Smita Chandra Thomas

Energy Shrink, LLC

202-556-3369





  On Oct 2, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Collins, Tom <tdcollins at bsu.edu 
<mailto:tdcollins at bsu.edu> > wrote:





Stefano,
Bob Koester and I at Ball State encountered the same issue this 
semester. It appears that the educational licenses are not being renewed 
and that students will now need to buy an annual license for $55. This 
is disappointing because I agree with you that  Sefaira was a great way 
to get students with limited modeling skills to explore simple energy 
use estimates. I would be curious to hear from the SBSE cohort about 
other software being used for simple energy modeling. I like Sefaira for 
its user interface.  Some suggestions I’ve received from colleagues and 
students are Open Studio, Insight in Revit, and Grasshopper with Ladybug 
and Honeybee. All seem less user friendly or useful for beginners.
Best,
-Tom


From: SBSE <sbse-bounces at uidaho.edu <mailto:sbse-bounces at uidaho.edu> > 
on behalf  of Stefano Schiavon <schiavon at berkeley.edu 
<mailto:schiavon at berkeley.edu> >
  Date: Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:27 PM
  To: "sbse at uidaho.edu <mailto:sbse at uidaho.edu> " <sbse at uidaho.edu 
<mailto:sbse at uidaho.edu> >
  Subject: [Sbse] Alternative to Safaira






Hi All,





Gail and I teach an introduction to energy and environment for 
undergraduate students. It is not a professional architectural program, 
and ~1/3 of the students do not have 3D software skills. Topics include 
climate analysis, energy flows in buildings, thermal properties of 
building materials, thermal comfort, solar shading, daylighting, passive 
heating and cooling, indoor air quality, acoustics, and mechanical 
systems.





In the past, we used Safaira during lab time and for the final design 
project to perform some simple energy estimations. We explored the 
effects of building rotation, changes in the wall assembly, shading 
devices,  windows property, and infiltration rate). It seems that 
Safaira is not free anymore. Do you know when this change happened and 
if exceptions are allowed?





Do you have any suggestions for alternative software?





Best,


Stefano








Image removed by sender. 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fscholar.google.com*2Fcitations*3Fuser*3D2GJDqawAAAAJ__*3B!!JYXjzlvb!xVdyUb6PPbqrkRbJYHDk8mRRXZa8QLno_3Wfqhj3o-X7TwhAuS2Rci1IzPgrPQ*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Ctdcollins*40bsu.edu*7Cc7cb819a39054e89a16c08d866efff80*7C6fff909f07dc40da9e30fd7549c0f494*7C0*7C0*7C637372528266579147*26sdata*3DVd6woqNfHrN*2FCw41cVbUtSRWSCW0Blg9aqlpCqi2ujE*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!JYXjzlvb!xlgO2Rc_HlLoaIfMwl7E-rAI7Jnk8rLlFknbsfMcF5RNukcZUUPDD8PWkt83cA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C1*7C637374545148718068&sdata=0uNeHyvqnI9a0flrCITN*2FniV3CZv6eZxmz6hf2dnGMw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPRc75zfgQ$> 
Image removed by sender. 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fwww.linkedin.com*2Fin*2Fstefanoschiavon*2F__*3B!!JYXjzlvb!xVdyUb6PPbqrkRbJYHDk8mRRXZa8QLno_3Wfqhj3o-X7TwhAuS2Rci36m1hquw*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Ctdcollins*40bsu.edu*7Cc7cb819a39054e89a16c08d866efff80*7C6fff909f07dc40da9e30fd7549c0f494*7C0*7C0*7C637372528266589145*26sdata*3DMGsY5FdtC4BS6vVt1gn2Z5*2BQlvZ14*2BnUXe6b*2FxqAZOw*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!JYXjzlvb!xlgO2Rc_HlLoaIfMwl7E-rAI7Jnk8rLlFknbsfMcF5RNukcZUUPDD8PHUfj_7Q*24&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C0*7C637374545148728071&sdata=ed63zY9bb7t*2FTgLFa2kM2czTGgZ7tGmL1fsFYctuAe0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKioqKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPSTKHPD3g$>





  _______________________________________________
  SBSE mailing list
  SBSE at uidaho.edu <mailto:SBSE at uidaho.edu>
  https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Flists.uidaho.edu*2Fmailman*2Flistinfo*2Fsbse&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C1*7C637374545148728071&sdata=2nRtcFlMeIviy5wabjDH*2B5P23LhGjg2x3JDOYX0uK*2FE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPSJhtOg3A$>



  _______________________________________________
  SBSE mailing list
  SBSE at uidaho.edu <mailto:SBSE at uidaho.edu>
  https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Flists.uidaho.edu*2Fmailman*2Flistinfo*2Fsbse&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C1*7C637374545148738062&sdata=M*2BIRXpT5DvnABvled8MDlMouiKQPNW2ZFzLBqnp6zy0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPRRgoYu_g$>


  _______________________________________________
  SBSE mailing list
  SBSE at uidaho.edu <mailto:SBSE at uidaho.edu>
  https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Flists.uidaho.edu*2Fmailman*2Flistinfo*2Fsbse&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C1*7C637374545148738062&sdata=M*2BIRXpT5DvnABvled8MDlMouiKQPNW2ZFzLBqnp6zy0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPRRgoYu_g$>



  _______________________________________________
  SBSE mailing list
  SBSE at uidaho.edu <mailto:SBSE at uidaho.edu>
  https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Flists.uidaho.edu*2Fmailman*2Flistinfo*2Fsbse&data=02*7C01*7Cpmlaroche*40cpp.edu*7C0d6d48b764d746e1e90c08d868c59722*7C164ba61e39ec4f5d89ffaa1f00a521b4*7C0*7C1*7C637374545148748054&sdata=QcbwemrbtYCPPEYwsLZz66HHmUux*2Fsz*2BZd3tBcwQMdc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!JYXjzlvb!1V3qLbOE55Zyub66oKkqTXSBTJFG3FLt1Hy9nM6EfmPBCxsttzaliPQ0uSd5DA$>



  CAUTION: This email was not sent from a Cal Poly Pomona service. 
Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments. Please 
forward suspicious email  to suspectemail at cpp.edu 
<mailto:suspectemail at cpp.edu> .



   _______________________________________________
  SBSE mailing list
  SBSE at uidaho.edu
  https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse 
<https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse>


  _______________________________________________
  SBSE mailing list
  SBSE at uidaho.edu
  https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse


    _______________________________________________
SBSE mailing list
SBSE at uidaho.edu
https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse 
<https://lists.uidaho.edu/mailman/listinfo/sbse>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.uidaho.edu/pipermail/sbse/attachments/20201008/7b30d997/attachment.html>


More information about the SBSE mailing list